This post has been all over my newsfeed today. There are some good points in it, for sure, but there was also much that left me either shuddering or rolling my eyes. Our world is already saturated with adversarial, fear-based parenting that tries to mix with common sense, and I would much rather see more Gospel that is truly good news for our children and families.
Piper's article starts off lamenting permissive parenting where parents repeatedly give a child instructions that the child ignores, and then resort to bribes.
OK, I can agree that that is not necessarily effective parenting. We are teaching children that our words don't matter if we toss them out there willy-nilly and they know that we don't mean them. However, he doesn't clarify whether or not the children heard the instructions, which actually is rather important. My children, just like me, often become so engrossed in whatever they are doing that it doesn't always register that someone is talking to them. In that case, yes, I repeat myself. I also try to get close enough to my child to gently touch a shoulder and make eye contact so that I know they are aware of what I am saying.
As for the bribery, it is just the flip side of his own form of motivation. He advocates punishment and fear-based coercion, some parents prefer to rely on bribery as a more positive version. The thing is, though, that both punishment and rewards are external motivation. Neither encourage children to do the right thing because of love and desire for righteousness--it is all about what is in it for them and how to keep themselves most comfortable. I want my children to go beyond self-centeredness to Christ-centeredness.
Then the ick starts to ramp up: he essentially says that if parents don't enforce immediate compliance every time, they are training their children to be shot by the police. Really? The fear-mongering here is a bit over the top. Fear clouds good judgement. When you encourage parents to operate from a place of fear, almost anything can be justified. It's the "spank-them-so-they-don't-run-in-the-street" argument on steroids. After all, if you are convinced that your children will be killed, or go to hell, or whatever other dire outcome, lesser violence seems acceptable and even desirable. And if you are scared enough, you just might not realize that there are better ways. My own worst parenting moments have always come from fear.
Piper claims that "requiring obedience of children is implicit in the biblical requirement that children obey their parents." Where does he find this in Scripture? The commandment is not, "Parents, demand honor for yourselves." Read the Gospels and look at Jesus' response to the disciples when they started trying to grasp honor and position for themselves. Arrogantly demanding that others honor us goes entirely against the nature of Christ.
Consider this other example of Biblical family relationships. Husbands and wives are commanded to submit to each other, but they are certainly not commanded to coerce the other into submission. Knowing that Piper believes wives must obey their husbands, if he is going to be consistent with this idea, then he would believe that husbands must force their wives to submit. That is a recipe for abuse. For a Reformed pastor to teach that we must coerce others into obeying God seems awfully Inquisition-like.
We are responsible to God for following His commands to us. We are not responsible for exacting revenge against those who do not soothe our pride.
Another important consideration is that obedience is far more than compliance. Compliance is just outwardly doing what is required. True obedience means that they hear with their hearts, they understand, and they choose to obey. It is a heart response of united purpose. It cannot be forced. If it is done out of fear, it is merely compliance, not obedience. And nowhere are parents given the authority to judge the hearts and intents of their children. To attempt that is to try to usurp power that belongs to God alone, and a far more serious thing than any childish mistakes our little ones might make.
Piper's third point is also disturbing: "Little children, under a year old, can be shown effectively what they may not touch, bite, pull, poke, spit out, or shriek about. You are bigger than they are. Use your size to save them for joy, not sentence them to selfishness." First of all, the most basic, introductory info on cognitive development in infants will show that babies this small are not capable of that level of self-regulation. What is most telling to me about this comment is that he doesn't say, "Use your maturity, wisdom and perspective as an adult to help them." He says, "Use your size." Instead of adults coming alongside their children to help, Piper implies that they are to bully and intimidate their babies.
Piper's fourth point seems to be that public behavior is much more important than behavior at home, and that consistency is desirable so that we won't be embarrassed in public. If obedience is really a heart issue, though, then what is done in secret is just as important as what is done with an audience. So many parents fall into the trap of focusing on outward appearance, and especially of harshly punishing their children for not catering to the parents' pride.
Point number five, that true discipline or teaching requires a lot of effort from the parents is absolutely true. I disagree with his characterization of children's motives, but he is right that parents need to teach their children even when they are tired or it is inconvenient. The problem I have here is that Piper again focuses on the outward action, with the example of a child getting out of bed repeatedly. This is "disobedience" and requires consistent punishment. Wouldn't it actually be more effective, though, to find out why the child is so resistant to going to bed? Is he scared? Is she not feeling well? Is his love-cup empty or leaking so that he needs extra time or cuddles with us? Is there a problem at school that has her anxious?
Point six:
I really like this one, perhaps more than anything else that Piper says in the entire article. So many parents do fall into the anger/passivity trap because they don't have better tools. I just wish that he had given them more effective ways to parent "in a spirit that is patient, firm, loving and grounded in the gospel." I heartily recommend Gentle Christian Mothers, Little Hearts Books, Positive Parenting: Toddlers and Beyond or Aha! Parenting for practical tools that don't rely on punishment.
Point seven: Piper claims that "the obedience which they have learned from fear and reward and respect will become the natural expression of faith." So, he wants parents to start teaching the kids through fear and reward before they are even capable of understanding obedience. (Wait a minute--reward? I thought he was against bribery? And I get the strong impression that respect in Piper's world is a one-way street.) I would suggest that if the children cannot understand it, it is not true obedience. It is just conditioning them. My children are not Pavlovian dogs. Piper also fails to provide any explanation of how fearing parents will cause them to love God. My relationship with God is not based on fear that has become internalized to the point of habit. It is based on love and trust, and that is what I want for my children, too.
Point 8: Piper's vision of children as brats who must be coerced into being convenient for adults is clear. Is it possible that seeing children as adversaries who must be defeated contributes to family conflict instead of solving it? The part about them being happier is just weird unless you read it through his final point, which implies the whole "happiness is the only acceptable emotion/punish them till they are sweet enough" ick that Ezzo and Tripp promote.
Point 9:
This one made my head spin a bit. I have seen some parents take this idea of representing God to children to the point of setting themselves up as idols, but let's bypass that for the moment. "Not every disobedience is punished. Some are noted, reproved and passed over." Didn't Piper just essentially say over and over that inconsistency would cause our children to get shot by the police? Now we are supposed to pass over disobedience? Oookay.
"The aim is quick, happy, thorough obedience." Not only are children supposed to unquestioningly obey our every whim, they must be happy about it! "Right away, all the way, with a smile," according to some parenting teachers. Except Jesus' parable of the Two Brothers contradicts this. The one who obeyed didn't do it quickly and happily. "That's what knowing God in Christ produces." But a couple of lines before, Piper says that this is "before they can know God through faith in the Gospel." So, we are to hold them to a standard that they cannot reach yet, and one that God Himself does not hold us to, but that isn't "the same as requiring perfection".
I get the idea that Piper is trying to soften his extreme "your child will be shot and it will be your fault!" stance, but is finding it difficult to flesh out. That is common with a punitive mindset.
Children do need boundaries. We do need to teach and disciple them like Jesus taught His disciples, even when we are tired or busy. Instead of passively ignoring misbehavior until we snap in anger, we must learn to parent in a spirit that is patient, firm, loving, and grounded in the gospel. Piper is saying important truths here. But this does not mean bullying our children and forcing them to comply through fear. True discipleship comes when there is so much trust and love in the relationship that the disciple chooses to follow.
Piper's article starts off lamenting permissive parenting where parents repeatedly give a child instructions that the child ignores, and then resort to bribes.
OK, I can agree that that is not necessarily effective parenting. We are teaching children that our words don't matter if we toss them out there willy-nilly and they know that we don't mean them. However, he doesn't clarify whether or not the children heard the instructions, which actually is rather important. My children, just like me, often become so engrossed in whatever they are doing that it doesn't always register that someone is talking to them. In that case, yes, I repeat myself. I also try to get close enough to my child to gently touch a shoulder and make eye contact so that I know they are aware of what I am saying.
As for the bribery, it is just the flip side of his own form of motivation. He advocates punishment and fear-based coercion, some parents prefer to rely on bribery as a more positive version. The thing is, though, that both punishment and rewards are external motivation. Neither encourage children to do the right thing because of love and desire for righteousness--it is all about what is in it for them and how to keep themselves most comfortable. I want my children to go beyond self-centeredness to Christ-centeredness.
Then the ick starts to ramp up: he essentially says that if parents don't enforce immediate compliance every time, they are training their children to be shot by the police. Really? The fear-mongering here is a bit over the top. Fear clouds good judgement. When you encourage parents to operate from a place of fear, almost anything can be justified. It's the "spank-them-so-they-don't-run-in-the-street" argument on steroids. After all, if you are convinced that your children will be killed, or go to hell, or whatever other dire outcome, lesser violence seems acceptable and even desirable. And if you are scared enough, you just might not realize that there are better ways. My own worst parenting moments have always come from fear.
Piper claims that "requiring obedience of children is implicit in the biblical requirement that children obey their parents." Where does he find this in Scripture? The commandment is not, "Parents, demand honor for yourselves." Read the Gospels and look at Jesus' response to the disciples when they started trying to grasp honor and position for themselves. Arrogantly demanding that others honor us goes entirely against the nature of Christ.
Consider this other example of Biblical family relationships. Husbands and wives are commanded to submit to each other, but they are certainly not commanded to coerce the other into submission. Knowing that Piper believes wives must obey their husbands, if he is going to be consistent with this idea, then he would believe that husbands must force their wives to submit. That is a recipe for abuse. For a Reformed pastor to teach that we must coerce others into obeying God seems awfully Inquisition-like.
We are responsible to God for following His commands to us. We are not responsible for exacting revenge against those who do not soothe our pride.
Another important consideration is that obedience is far more than compliance. Compliance is just outwardly doing what is required. True obedience means that they hear with their hearts, they understand, and they choose to obey. It is a heart response of united purpose. It cannot be forced. If it is done out of fear, it is merely compliance, not obedience. And nowhere are parents given the authority to judge the hearts and intents of their children. To attempt that is to try to usurp power that belongs to God alone, and a far more serious thing than any childish mistakes our little ones might make.
Piper's third point is also disturbing: "Little children, under a year old, can be shown effectively what they may not touch, bite, pull, poke, spit out, or shriek about. You are bigger than they are. Use your size to save them for joy, not sentence them to selfishness." First of all, the most basic, introductory info on cognitive development in infants will show that babies this small are not capable of that level of self-regulation. What is most telling to me about this comment is that he doesn't say, "Use your maturity, wisdom and perspective as an adult to help them." He says, "Use your size." Instead of adults coming alongside their children to help, Piper implies that they are to bully and intimidate their babies.
Piper's fourth point seems to be that public behavior is much more important than behavior at home, and that consistency is desirable so that we won't be embarrassed in public. If obedience is really a heart issue, though, then what is done in secret is just as important as what is done with an audience. So many parents fall into the trap of focusing on outward appearance, and especially of harshly punishing their children for not catering to the parents' pride.
Point number five, that true discipline or teaching requires a lot of effort from the parents is absolutely true. I disagree with his characterization of children's motives, but he is right that parents need to teach their children even when they are tired or it is inconvenient. The problem I have here is that Piper again focuses on the outward action, with the example of a child getting out of bed repeatedly. This is "disobedience" and requires consistent punishment. Wouldn't it actually be more effective, though, to find out why the child is so resistant to going to bed? Is he scared? Is she not feeling well? Is his love-cup empty or leaking so that he needs extra time or cuddles with us? Is there a problem at school that has her anxious?
Point six:
"One reason parents don’t require discipline is they have never seen it done. They come from homes that had two modes: passivity and anger. They know they don’t want to parent in anger. The only alternative they know is passivity. There is good news: this can change. Parents can learn from the Bible and from wise people what is possible, what is commanded, what is wise, and how to do it in a spirit that is patient, firm, loving, and grounded in the gospel."
I really like this one, perhaps more than anything else that Piper says in the entire article. So many parents do fall into the anger/passivity trap because they don't have better tools. I just wish that he had given them more effective ways to parent "in a spirit that is patient, firm, loving and grounded in the gospel." I heartily recommend Gentle Christian Mothers, Little Hearts Books, Positive Parenting: Toddlers and Beyond or Aha! Parenting for practical tools that don't rely on punishment.
Point seven: Piper claims that "the obedience which they have learned from fear and reward and respect will become the natural expression of faith." So, he wants parents to start teaching the kids through fear and reward before they are even capable of understanding obedience. (Wait a minute--reward? I thought he was against bribery? And I get the strong impression that respect in Piper's world is a one-way street.) I would suggest that if the children cannot understand it, it is not true obedience. It is just conditioning them. My children are not Pavlovian dogs. Piper also fails to provide any explanation of how fearing parents will cause them to love God. My relationship with God is not based on fear that has become internalized to the point of habit. It is based on love and trust, and that is what I want for my children, too.
Point 8: Piper's vision of children as brats who must be coerced into being convenient for adults is clear. Is it possible that seeing children as adversaries who must be defeated contributes to family conflict instead of solving it? The part about them being happier is just weird unless you read it through his final point, which implies the whole "happiness is the only acceptable emotion/punish them till they are sweet enough" ick that Ezzo and Tripp promote.
Point 9:
"Since parents represent God to children — especially before they can know God through faith in the gospel — we show them both justice and mercy. Not every disobedience is punished. Some are noted, reproved, and passed over. There is no precise manual for this mixture. Children should learn from our parenting that the God of the gospel is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:7, 29) and that he is patient and slow to anger (1 Timothy 1:16). In both cases — discipline and patience — the aim is quick, happy, thorough obedience. That’s what knowing God in Christ produces."
This one made my head spin a bit. I have seen some parents take this idea of representing God to children to the point of setting themselves up as idols, but let's bypass that for the moment. "Not every disobedience is punished. Some are noted, reproved and passed over." Didn't Piper just essentially say over and over that inconsistency would cause our children to get shot by the police? Now we are supposed to pass over disobedience? Oookay.
"The aim is quick, happy, thorough obedience." Not only are children supposed to unquestioningly obey our every whim, they must be happy about it! "Right away, all the way, with a smile," according to some parenting teachers. Except Jesus' parable of the Two Brothers contradicts this. The one who obeyed didn't do it quickly and happily. "That's what knowing God in Christ produces." But a couple of lines before, Piper says that this is "before they can know God through faith in the Gospel." So, we are to hold them to a standard that they cannot reach yet, and one that God Himself does not hold us to, but that isn't "the same as requiring perfection".
I get the idea that Piper is trying to soften his extreme "your child will be shot and it will be your fault!" stance, but is finding it difficult to flesh out. That is common with a punitive mindset.
Children do need boundaries. We do need to teach and disciple them like Jesus taught His disciples, even when we are tired or busy. Instead of passively ignoring misbehavior until we snap in anger, we must learn to parent in a spirit that is patient, firm, loving, and grounded in the gospel. Piper is saying important truths here. But this does not mean bullying our children and forcing them to comply through fear. True discipleship comes when there is so much trust and love in the relationship that the disciple chooses to follow.
3 comments:
Dulce, thank you so much for writing this. I pray others will be blessed by it. I attended Bethlehem Baptist Church when I lived in Minnesota for two years. Piper was the pastor there. I like much of what he has to say. But when my son was born, I was sickened when I received Shepherding a Child's Heart in the mail from the church as a congratulatory gift. I could not believe what that book was saying, nor that a large group of Christians were accepting it as truth. Shocking, to say the least. Anyways, it sparked me to become active speaking out about the misconceptions in the church surrounding parenting, particularly discipline. And so we met! :) Thank you for the encouragement you have been thus far. Looking forward to more of your writings!
Hi Dulce. I appreciated a number of observations you made in rebuttal of John Piper's article. I love your words, "I want my children to go beyond self-centeredness to Christ-centeredness." I do not agree with using my "size" persay to get my children to obey. Neither do I believe that having well-behaved children in public is the chief result of parenting. Thank you for addressing these issues.
Now, on the flip side. You questioned Piper's comment: "requiring obedience of children is implicit in the biblical requirement that children obey their parents." You wondered where he got that statement from. Both Ephesians 6:1 and Colossians 3:20 clearly teach that children are to obey their parents in everything for this is well pleasing to the Lord. This means that it's not an option for parents to let their kids chose what they wish to obey (based on their feelings in that moment). A young, unregenerate child will seldom willingly chose to obey or honor their parents; therefore, it is the parents responsibility to train their child for obedience, each time, every time.
I think you misread Pipers 4th point. He was not stating that public behavior is more important than obedience at home. He was essentially saying that teaching obedience at home will naturally lead to obedience in public. Do the scriptures not say in Proverbs that if we discipline our children they will be a delight to our souls?
Fifth point - as parents we know our children better than anyone else (or even better than they know themselves!!!). I guarantee that if a child continues to leave their bed several times a night, several times a week, this is more than "I need a little love, I need a drink of water..." this IS disobedience/manipulation and does need to be addressed. Piper is not talking about a kid to needs to use the bathroom occasionally or who has had a nightmare. He is addressing the child who manipulates and parents who are "foolish" enough to fall for it.
I think you misinterpreted point 8. No where did Piper insist that happiness is the only emotion acceptable for a child. What he did say is that when we train our children toward obedience (as God has commanded), our children are going to be happier because they have learned to deal with the answer "no." Many parents are afraid of their children's reaction to the word no, so they barter, bride, negotiate, distract and then give in. Obedience means we expect our child to obey regardless of how they feel about it. "Do everything without complaining or arguing." That scripture gives a parent the needed tool to sit down and talk with their children about how the Lord desires we be cheerful in our obedience. In the end, they will learn that true happiness is obedience to the Lord (though obedience to parents) and not through bargaining.
I am not an advocate of making our children fearful of us through bullying, but I do believe as parents we have a hefty responsibility to require obedience of our children. In the early years they need to be taught submission without constantly arguing or bargaining. Will they have emotions, yes! It is the parents responsibility to use Scripture to speak into their child's lives for how the Lord desires them to respond.
Would you not concede that much of the aggression and violence in N. America is mostly due to teenagers who were never taught the importance of God-given authority? They have a "I will do as I please" attitude from the get-go and guess who's fault that is? The parents. Sad!
Thanks again for your comments and review.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post. I have been so disturbed by this article and I've struggled so much that Piper (a man I deeply respect) was using fear-mongering to teach stuff that is way too close to scary stuff promoted by Pearls, Ezzos and Tripp. I'm so disappointed in him for doing this.
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